Life and times of a new farmer/homesteader

The comment that offended me, and my response (much toned down.)

{ 06:16 , Saturday, January 20, 2007 } { 7 comments } { Link }
I wrote a little blog entry on a quote by our fearless leader, and granted, I was being a bit sarcastic, as I tend to be when discussing G.W.  I got a comment from gokings13, which I will post here in it's entirety:

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Untitled Comment

{ 03:31 , Saturday, January 20, 2007 } { Posted by gokings13 } { Edit } { Delete }
***Where do we come up with these people, our leaders?***

Do you really want to know?
Hmmmm.
Well, our 'culture' has created these 'leaders'.
First, we took God off the throne and put ourselves in His Place. Then we systematically removed God from our teaching, training, and as our Leader. In His Place, we elevated education, women, open thinking, and every other form of Idolatry.
Once God was removed from the teaching and training (IE the schools) then "man" was free to indoctrinate the children with whatever he pleased.
Yes, not only has the public school system and the college system created these "leaders", but *we* VOTED them into power. The system is doing exactly what it was designed to do:
Create *people* who do not think freely, but rather let someone else tell then HOW to think and WHAT they should think, and WHEN they should think.
We have become a society that "Goose Steps" to the beat of the Godless System.

This is why the Bible is FULL of warnings against idolatry!!
Laura

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Now, I'm not a Christian.  I may be a little vague on exactly what idolatry is.  So, I looked it up.

From wikipedia:

The word idolatry comes (by haplology) from the Greek word eidololatria, a compound of eidolon, "image" or "figure", and latreia, "worship". Although the Greek appears to be a loan translation of the Hebrew phrase avodat elilim, which is attested in rabbinic literature (e.g., bChul., 13b, Bar.), the Greek term itself is not found in the Septuagint, Philo, Josephus, or in other Hellenistic Jewish writings. It is also not found in Greek pagan literature. In the New Testament, the Greek word is found only in the letters of Paul, 1 Peter, 1 John, and Revelation, where it has a derogatory meaning. Hebrew terms for idolatory include avodah zarah (foreign worship) and avodat kochavim umazalot (worship of planets and constellations).

So if i get this right, idolatry is the worship of images or objects. 

Ok, granted, in this context, I can see your point.  Placing value on objects over value on spiritual matters may have led us to the point we are now, as a debtor nation, and may have led to the quote by the President.  I'll give you that.

But, what does idolatry have to do with your quote:  "In His Place, we elevated education, women, open thinking, and every other form of Idolatry."?  How is education, open thinking, and how are women idolatry?  It would seem to me that education, open thinking, and women could or would have prevented the election of this particular president.  I'm not certain that the alternative would have been better, but it would have been different.

Am I to understand that you are implying that liberal ideals are at fault for the election of our current president?

To quote you:

"Yes, not only has the public school system and the college system created these "leaders", but *we* VOTED them into power. The system is doing exactly what it was designed to do:
Create *people* who do not think freely, but rather let someone else tell then HOW to think and WHAT they should think, and WHEN they should think. "

Now, I don't know about you, but "I" did not vote for this man.  There is even room for doubt that "we" as a country elected him president.  The Supreme Court had more to do with it than the populous of the United States.  As a student of the public school and university system, I learned critical thinking skills that taught me to recognise incompetence in our potential public leaders.  I do think freely.  No one tells me what, how, or when to think, or for that matter to believe.

If I remember correctly, the reason Bush got elected was because of the get out the vote efforts of the religeous right.  It wasn't idolatry, or free thinking, it was the self proclaimed faithful.

Not all American Christians voted for him, I know that.  Just the self righteous ones.  The ones who were told what to think, not by their schools, but by their church.

Idolatry, as I understand it, had little or nothing to do with it.

I will agree that our culture created these leaders, and that idolatry may have had a part in this particular quote.  But such crass generalizations (including, granted, some of mine,) do nothing to improve the debate or improve the situation of our country, or for that matter our world.

I don't vote for republicans, or democrats, unless I know in my heart and my mind that that person is the best person for the job.  I have voted for republicans, and democrats.  Not this one though.

Thank you for your time and your patience.

Raymond




!

{ 07:22 , Saturday, January 20, 2007 } { Posted by rlhayden }
Thank you for this posting....I sent you a private message because what I wanted to post in response would, I am sure, draw hateful comments from a few people.

Untitled Comment

{ 08:04 , Saturday, January 20, 2007 } { Posted by Kitty }
I think the best thing you can do with a bad comment is delete it. I have had to do that on occaision. We wont ever all agree on any one thing, we all have opinions that we feel is the right way, just remember there just opinions.
Kitty

Hmmm, interesting point.

{ 09:41 , Saturday, January 20, 2007 } { Posted by zoggypdx }
You're right, they are just opinions. I have no issues with that. When someone posts a comment to my blog, or sends me a message that is hateful, bigotted, or otherwise truly offensive in both words and spirit, I will delete it.

However, I don't think that the comment from gokings13 was intended as insulting. It does show a different point of view than mine, and I would like the opportunity to comment and receive comment on it. I think she's entitled to her opinion, and she's entitiled to defend it as she sees fit, as I will defend my opinion. As I stated in this post, there are things she said that I do agree with. However, enough of it was, I felt, misinformed that I had the desire to comment on it myself. I don't claim to be an expert on any subject, I simply have an opinion. My mind can be changed, I can admit that I'm wrong, but I really want to see why I might be in error here.

I guess that this may be the danger of an open and inquisitive mind. Sometimes, things are not what they seem. And, if by some chance, she is in error and I correct wrong thinking on her part, then the post was worth it. If I am wrong, and she can show me and logically prove her point, or even clarify it so that my misunderstanding is remedied, then the post was worth it. If we both walk away, agreeing to disagree, but aware of each others opinions, then, once again, the post was worth it.

If the original comment was simply stated in animosity, to get a reaction, I will gladly remove both the offending comment and this follow-up post. I guess I'm giving her more credit than that.

Blessings,

Raymond

E A S Y !!!!

{ 04:32 , Sunday, January 21, 2007 } { Posted by gokings13 }
My post was not intended to offend!!
If it did offend you, deleting it, and then a private mail to me saying I was out of line would have been nice :)

Idolatry, as written in the Word means "putting anything before God, or making something / someone EQUAL to God". Any time, any one elevates something as more important than God or JUST AS important to God, they are in error.......I was addressing the moral decline of our nation as a whole.

I didn't say "you" voted the current leader in :) ......just that the "leaders in power" are placed there BY THE PEOPLE. And the majority of "the people" have been indoctrinated by a "system" that promotes a lot of Godlessness. Again, addressing the moral decline of our nation as the reason for so many poor choices.

I was not "slamming or flaming or whatever it's called"!! I am sorry that it came across that way. I was answering your question!! I actually quoted it at the beginning!!

I am sorry that you took my comment the wrong way. I will not comment on your blog from here on out, so that there is no more confusion! :)
Laura

Edited by gokings13 on Sunday, January 21, 2007 at 07:50

Untitled Comment

{ 06:11 , Sunday, January 21, 2007 } { Posted by morningsunshine }
I think that there are many good things in this world that promote idolatry. open thinking is a good thing. so is education (I believe very strongly that God wants us to be educated and to study and learn as much as we can on this earth - that is why we are here, to learn) and women. sports are a good thing, and cars are good. when they becoem bad is when they become more important than God. When someone starts "worshipping" sports stars or playing the game to the exclusion of other things, ESPECIALLY God, that is when it becomes idolatry. I used sports because it is an easy example.
as for the rest of your comment, I will hold my peace. :)

An apology

{ 02:45 , Sunday, January 21, 2007 } { Posted by zoggypdx }
To gokings13: I'm sorry. The post was not meant as a personal attack. I misunderstood you, in a couple of ways. The whole experience has been thought provoking, and for that I thank you.

My deepest apologies.

Raymond

<i>Untitled Comment</i>

{ 09:05 , Sunday, January 21, 2007 } { Posted by Andrea }
Don't let gokings13 bother you, Raymond. She posted some self-righteous little blurb on my blog too but when I posted a response on her blog, she deleted it. Guess she just likes to "talk" but doesn't much like to "listen". That's how some folks are so don't worry about it.

Say what you mean and mean what you say, Raymond, and never apologize for either.

Peace~ Andrea

P.S. I voted for Bush... twice... I'm ashamed to say! I'm counting down the days until the dictator gets out of MY white house!!!! :- / Hopefully the whole world won't implode beforehand.

Edited by Andrea on Monday, January 22, 2007 at 12:06

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